(NOT SO) DEEP THOUGHTS
I have one simple question for you all:
Where have all the gentlemen disappeared to?
I hate to generalize on such a large scale, but I’ve recently become rather appalled (and almost insulted) at the lack of manners in men I encounter on a daily basis in the downtown core. There seems to be a large and gaping hole where courtesies, open doors and a “ladies first” policy once dwelled.
Photo: iandavid on Flickr
I’ve long been a champion of traditionalism in its various forms - though not to be confused with blatant sexism. Oddly enough, I find it to be a topic I keep returning to, incarnated somewhat differently each time. That is, however, besides my point.
Sure, I am capable of opening the door to my office building, but sometimes it would be nice if the man who enters it before me could, at the very least, hold it open for yours truly also.
And while we all ride the elevator and get to the ground floor at the same time, it would be nice if the random men I ride it with would offer me the option of walking out first (particularly if they get on after I do). Oddly enough, the only men who do seem to remember these common, basic courtesies are the 60+ crowd.
As I said, it’s wrong of me to pidgeonhole 21st-century men in such a way. To prove me wrong, I challenge my more chivalrous male readers to tell me who they are and take a stand against those who…aren’t.
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24 Comments
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Oh don’t get me started about elderly women, pregnant women or women with children who get on the bus and have to stand while a strapping young man (or anyone else for that matter) sits in the courtesy seats.
I’m glad to know I’m not the only one who has been asking myself this question… :S
*sticks his left hand up with pride*
*sticks his right middle finger up in the direction of the other men*
Clearly not all of us were so privileged as to have 3 sisters though. I just learned well (and probably by force haha)
My experience when I worked downtown in Toronto was very different. I was amazed at all of the men, both young and old who held open a door for me, and showed the courtesy of allowing me off the elevator first etc. It made me feel somewhat special, as I wasn’t used to that kind of treatment having worked previously with a bunch of men in uniform.
Yeah I’m not a big fan of bragging - in fact it’s probably more the way I was raised than anything - but I’m often shocked at the general publics lack of manners. And if you think Vancouver is bad, try Philadelphia.
I’ve lived about half my adult life in the US and the other half in Canada. I find the differences between the two countries fascinating, and spend a lot of time thinking about them. San Francisco wins as “most polite” city I’ve lived in in the US, and perhaps surprisingly, Toronto wins for Canada. In Philly I once did a week long experiment, and I still remember the exact stats. I held the door open for 76 people over a 5 day work week at the downtown building I worked in (I’m a smoker, I go in and out a lot..). 8 people said “thanks”, 1 said “thank you”. NINE out of SEVENTY SIX. When I talked about it with my co-workers they mostly admitted to being guilty of the same “not saying thank you” habit.
I didn’t use public transit in Philly very often (disgusting doesn’t even begin to come close to describing it). The first time I offered my seat to someone I swear that half of the people on he bus stared at me in disbelief. The elderly woman I gave my seat to said that “in all of her years” taking public transit, that had never happened to her. She asked where I was from, knowing that it wasn’t Philly, New Jersey or Delaware.
Where I will give Vancouver some credit is the whole “thank you!” thing when people get off the bus. The first time someone did that when I was on a bus I was like wtf is that all about. Then a friend explained to me it’s a “Vancouver thing” - and I’ve very happily adopted the habit.
I’ve noticed this lack of courtesy as well…( and totally agree with Rebecca about seats on the bus! grr!) In fact, I actually feel like common courtesy has gone out the window almost completely these days.
I wouldn’t even dream of walking through a door without looking to check if there’s someone behind me to hold it for. I have, on the other hand, had a door slam in my face many times because the person ahead did not afford me that same courtesy.
The chivalrous men certainly do seem to be fewer and farther between these days.
there’s a few of us around but we’re not always perfect.
I don’t know any other way of being and for that, I give full credit to my parents. As to why you don’t see basic manners anymore, I would say that it has a lot to do with how these individuals were raised and the general “me first” attitude that is so prevalent today.
What these people are missing is that the more you give, the more you get in return. Acts of kindness, no matter how small, are their own reward.
Chivalry isn’t dead, it’s just not in fashion.
Re: the thank yous … I was on the elevator with 3 guys from work and a woman was just heading through the front doors of the building when the elevator doors shut. My co-worker lunged forward to hit the “door open” button so she could get in with us and not wait for it to come back down for her. She hopped in…. said nothing…. got off on the third floor and my co-worker said, “did you see that? Not even a thank you! I’m *never* doing that again.”
+ 1 on Rebecca’s comments. I’ve been chivalrous all my life (my Mom raised five boys and she taught us all well) and on more than one occasion I have had women refuse to say thank you after I’ve done something nice. Not doing it again!
(Actually I do, and as all my dear female friends will attest, I *am* a gentleman and I always open the door, say “thank you”, offer my arm for the lady who is besides me, and do all sorts of nice gestures). And no, it doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that I’m queer, but just the fact that I was educated that way by a woman who knew that these attributes would be useful for us. I have four straight brothers, all of them married. All their wives LOVE the fact that my brothers are gentlemen.
My 2 cents. And kudos to the men who have commented that they are also chivalrous. Hat tips to you all boys.
I guess its all about the way you have been raised, if your parents taught you to have courtesy you’ll have it with everyone doesn’t matter if its a young or old person, you will open or hold the door, give your seat for anybody who isn’t even expecting it from you.
I think all of these and more you must have been taught first, its after years of practice that you do it naturally it is then when a natural behavior becomes a manner.
Chivalry is not something you get around the corner, it must be taught, learned and practiced to be achieved.
EQ
I work with the Royal Air Force on an Army Camp and I recently attended something which they call a ‘Top Table’. It’s basically a 3 course meal with lots of wine and many traditions, one of which included ‘Passing the Port’. The bottle of Port had to be passed around the table to the right without touching the table. If a man was sat next to a lady, then he HAD to pour the Port for her (otherwise he would get alot of abuse from his fellow military males!). All afternoon I was treated like a lady and I loved it! Chairs pulled out for me, drinks poured and doors held open… that was until we were back outside in the real world. I’m definitely a fan of a man with manners.
There are very few gentlemen that I see in the city, but any of the ones I do know are friends of mine, and do such things as walk on the the street side of me (Raul), and open the car doors for me (Dean).
I actually find myself holding doors open, and giving up seats on the bus, etc way more often than any of the strange men I encounter. I think we were born in the wrong era, my friend.
I second Dan.
Though it’s probably a concept that people way over on the other side of the planet don’t know much about. At least, I haven’t seen any evidence of it. I’ve noticed that if I hold a door open for a woman here I just get funny looks. But then again, what your concept of gentlemanly is is a very western concept. I’m pretty sure if I hold enough doors open for ladies here I’ll eventually get a marriage proposal just for being nice…
In an effort to stick up for the ‘gentlemen’ in Vancouver let me share with you a story:
I was out on a first date along South Granville. We were window shopping and talking, and it was quite cold and snowy. I noticed an elderly lady struggling to cross a patch of ice (I honestly thought she was going to break a hip!), so I quickly jogged off, helped the elderly lady out (got a thank-you from her). When I jogged back to my date, I apologized and was promptly told that I had insulted her by leaving her to help the old lady out.
I told her that if she was going to be like that, that the date was over, and I walked away…
***
There are gentlemen out there in my opinion, but some of them/us have been shat upon by inconsiderate women so many times, we choose our moments carefully…
Sad, but in my opinion, true…
There are still a few of us gentlemen around in Vancouver. I do go my way out to help others whenever I can. I can never understand ppl sitting in the courtesy seats and not giving up their seats to the elders or pregnant women. I actually feel ashamed for them that they even took the seats in the first place.
Re Mitch, wow what an biatch I would have done the same myself.
It just seems like a lot of people a rather selfish and take for granted some of the courtesies they are given (the door opening, holding the elevator, etc.). This could explain the serious lack of thank yous.
It’s a shame that social niceties and etiquette are slowly dying.
@Mitch - I thought that was commendable what you did. Too bad your date didn’t appreciate what you did. That might be her some years down the road.
I hold doors for anybody and everybody, all the time. I’ll go out of my way to do so, even when it’s far from convenient for me (ie, carrying a lot of things so I have to hold the door open with my foot).
It irritates me to no end when I’m the one going through a door 2nd to a female. I’d say 25% of the time I’m able to make it and open it for them and 10% of the time they’ll (gasp!) hold it for me. The other 60% of the time I’m conveniently bogged down with grocery bags or something and the girl in front is just not paying attention.
How can you walk through a door without taking that extra glance to see if anyone’s behind you?
I’m one of those people who will hold the door open for like 15 people. Or run to the door to open it for someone who has their hands full.
What I don’t like is if people in front of me won’t hold the door open, wont even touch it so that when I rush to the door I almost walk into it. They could of noticed me behind them going the same way they are going and hold it open while I get there.
I haven’t taken the bus in a long time but I have moved for people to sit down in my spot if the bus was full. I’ve given up my seat to the elderly on a packed bus when the little teens just go about their obnoxious ways too. Same went for the Skytrain, I’d stand and let a lady and her youngster take the seat etc.
There are some nice people out there still. But I do agree, they are becoming more of a rarity.
I’ve always been a traditionalist, but most of my friends are not. When I was rushing my fraternity we would lose favor if any active member saw us disrespect a lady such as not letting her out of a room first or holding the door open for her, etc. Not that fraternities are a yardstick for politeness, but we try
Since reading this post, I’ve started to take notice of people who do or don’t hold doors, who says thank you or not. Be default, I usually try to hold the door open for whoever is behind me. Sometimes they say thanks. Sometimes they don’t.
I’ll continue to make note of this…
Just wanted to concur with most of the above and offer a couple more points. I’ve received several positive comments over the years just for saying “please”, and it takes me by surprise because I’ve always seen that as how you’re supposed to behave and not especially praiseworthy. And I make a point of saying “you’re welcome” when I do get a “thank you” for holding a door or some similar courtesy.
I have blogged about this too, not just the manners but the total lack of respect some men show to women. I think it is a backlash to feminism.
I am always polite, say thank you, smile, let people in line in front, hold doors open, and people really respond to the cheerfulness of my nature. The other day I was waiting in line with a big bag of kitty litter in my hand. A man in front of me in line offer that I could put the bag on the counter. Not go in front of him - mind you, just put the bag on the counter. I said no thanks, that I was getting a work out from holding it, and he said that was a positive attitude. Karma was that, the item he was buying wasn’t properly tagged so he had to wait while the register lady helped me through and they did a price check for him. I just smiled and wished him a good day as I left and he was still waiting on the price check.
Generally I believe in life you get what you give.
Smoochies
B @ The Love Blog
Quoting Phaedra:
There are very few gentlemen that I see in the city, but any of the ones I do know are friends of mine, and do such things as walk on the the street side of me (Raul), and open the car doors for me (Dean).
Just out of curiosity, did you know that chivalry actually has nothing to do with men walking on the street side of women? It actually started back when there was no indoor plumbing, people used chamber pots, and the contents were thrown out the window. Seriously. That’s why in old-fashioned movies you see ladies carrying parasols. It’s not about traffic; it’s about getting showered in solid/liquid waste.
Charming, eh?